Episode 128
128: Marie’s Crisis with Guest of Honor JOE KINOSIAN
The Queens welcome special Guest of Honor, Joe Kinosian and together they rate and review a painful 1 Star Yelp Review for legendary NYC karaoke bar, Marie’s Crisis! Joe talks composing our theme song, being a ‘multi-AWARD-nominee,’ and the impact of creating musicals in a world where tourists review your show on TripAdvisor!
Queendom Question: Can YOU cry while judging?!
Follow Joe on Instagram @JoeKinzo, learn more about Joe & Kellen Blair’s writing partnership at KinosianAndBlair.com , and license your own production of Murder For Two at ConcordTheatricals.com!
(01:09) GUEST OF HONOR: Joe Kinosian
(19:04) Marie’s Crisis Review
(35:45) Exclusive Offer
(41:30) Do You KiKNOWsian This Broadway Opening?
(01:03:34) Joe’s Advice
(01:05:34) On This Week's After Show Pod
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Review That Review is an independent podcast. Executive Produced by Trey Gerrald and Chelsey Donn with editing and sound design by Trey Gerrald. Cover art designed by LogoVora, voiceover talents by Eva Kaminsky, and our theme song was written by Joe Kinosian and sung by Natalie Weiss.
Transcript
Everybody's got an opinion, Every Californian and Virginian, It's so hard to tell who to trust and who
VOICEOVER:to Chelsey will help you choose, Whose views win which ones lose, Online haters are coming for you, Baby, it's time to Review That Review!
CHELSEY DONN:Hello,
TREY GERRALD:Oh my god, hello and welcome to Review That Review!
TREY GERRALD:We are the podcast that is dedicated to reviewing.
CHELSEY DONN:Review,
TREY GERRALD:That is Chelsey Donn.
CHELSEY DONN:and that is Trey Gerrald,
TREY GERRALD:And when we come together, we are,
VOICEOVER:The Review Queens,
CHELSEY DONN:and y'all, we are so excited and happy today because this week, we've got a very special,
VOICEOVER:Guest of Honor,
TREY GERRALD:yeah, so every so often we love to invite a special guest of honor onto the show to share some of their experiences dealing with online reviews from their unique position.
CHELSEY DONN:with their expertise, we have them don their Review Queen crown, and help us inspect an online review,
TREY GERRALD:And today, you guys, We have Joe Kinosian, oh my god,
CHELSEY DONN:We did it Joe!
CHELSEY DONN:We did it!
CHELSEY DONN:Joe is the writer and composer of and frequent performer in the musical Murder for Two, which won Chicago's Jeff Award for Best New Musical and earned Joe a Jeff Award nomination for Best Leading Actor before opening Off Broadway.
CHELSEY DONN:The Off Broadway production of Murder for Two earned What?
CHELSEY DONN:A Drama Desk, Drama League, and Outer Critics Circle Award nominations, and went on to a two year national tour.
CHELSEY DONN:Murder for Two has since been performed all around the country, as well as internationally in Japan, Korea, England, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, and Australia.
TREY GERRALD:God I might, Joe also wrote and composed the musical, It Came From Outer Space, with longtime writing partner, Kellen Blair, which had its world premiere in Chicago last summer, and will hopefully be seen again soon, wink wink, Joe was also the writer composer, and performed 15 historical characters on History Comedy Podcast, Let's Start a Coup, Exclamation mark, which is an iHeartMedia original, excuse me.
TREY GERRALD:As an actor, Joe's performed regionally in plays like An Act of God and his dream role, the title character in The Nerd.
TREY GERRALD:Joe also does the best Miss Piggy impression this side of Frank Oz, which we're gonna have to hear a little later.
TREY GERRALD:But, all of you listeners, definitely know the name Joe Kinosian for his work as the composer and lyricist of our very own theme song!
CHELSEY DONN:That's right!
CHELSEY DONN:I mean, how could we be more in your debt?
CHELSEY DONN:Every, every single time I listen to that song, I get excited and it's my show, which is, I don't know what that says about me, but like, I love it so much and I'm so grateful for you, like, the
TREY GERRALD:I felt a little nervous because we always dance to the song, and having Joe in the room, I felt nervous.
TREY GERRALD:Anyway, that was a long time for Joe to sit quietly and patiently.
TREY GERRALD:So, without further ado, we've got to welcome our very special guest of honor, Mr.
TREY GERRALD:Joe Kinosian!
JOE KINOSIAN:my god, I'm so happy to be here and, um, yeah, I love that song too.
JOE KINOSIAN:We had, we danced to it while we were in the recording room with, uh, with Natalie.
CHELSEY DONN:Incredible.
TREY GERRALD:wait, so let's go back to 20, um, what was that, 2021, maybe?
TREY GERRALD:And, what was your thought when we reached out to you and, and what did you think?
JOE KINOSIAN:No, I was so excited and...
JOE KINOSIAN:I feel like what inspired the song was the cover art because you had that first and you sent me that, you know, that beautiful, it's like black with the neon and I was like, oh, that looks like very sort of 80s, LA, like palm trees on sunsets.
JOE KINOSIAN:And it was like, I thought of the band, The Cardigans, you know, of loveful fame.
JOE KINOSIAN:So I was like that sort of like surfy 80s vibe.
TREY GERRALD:It's amazing.
CHELSEY DONN:so good.
CHELSEY DONN:I just still remember listening to the first ever recording that you sang and I was obsessed Like even I mean obviously Natalie brings the like all the sparkle and the glitter and
JOE KINOSIAN:Review!
JOE KINOSIAN:I can't do that.
CHELSEY DONN:I just will never ever forget that moment of listening to that recording.
CHELSEY DONN:So thank you so much for this
JOE KINOSIAN:Trey, do we?
JOE KINOSIAN:You're so welcome, and I'm, I'm honored to have done it and to be here.
JOE KINOSIAN:But you know, Trey, what we should have pulled up is you remember you sent me like your lyrical idea brainstorm?
TREY GERRALD:Yes.
TREY GERRALD:Uh huh.
JOE KINOSIAN:And it was kind of the shape of what the song became, but it was like, just like phrases.
TREY GERRALD:Much better.
TREY GERRALD:Yours was much better.
TREY GERRALD:Patreon members will know that we, maybe six episodes ago, reviewed for our 100th after show, one of our dress rehearsals and it was us playing that demo recording.
TREY GERRALD:So if you're on Patreon, you actually get to hear Joe's demo.
TREY GERRALD:But Joe, we're so glad that you're here and we want to like get into the nitty gritty of reviews.
TREY GERRALD:So we're curious from your point of view as someone who has created musicals from the ground up.
TREY GERRALD:And as someone who is a performer, who gets constantly critiqued and reviewed, like, how do reviews affect you as a creator, as an artist, all of that?
JOE KINOSIAN:Well, you know, you, you don't want to give them as much credit as you sort of have to.
JOE KINOSIAN:And I'm thinking of that, you know, there's the professional reviews, like the ones in the papers, and then there's the, you know, just the people who are talking online.
JOE KINOSIAN:And I feel like I've gotten pretty good at ignoring people online.
JOE KINOSIAN:I just try to stay away from the comments or, you know, have, if friends have like read the comments, like, I can ask them, were they good or should I stay away from this one?
JOE KINOSIAN:But yeah, but, but the critics on the papers, I think you just have to, They're serving their purpose and, So you were saying, I've got musicals from the ground up, And I have, twice, But in between those two were six that never even went anywhere, So it's like the act of getting the one all the way to the stage, And then just have some critic be like, I didn't really see what they were going for, It's just like, it can be so demoralizing, so, Generally try to stay away and then also try to tell myself they have a purpose even if that doesn't necessarily apply to the work you're doing or trying to do.
TREY GERRALD:Can you feel a distinction between the madness of Voices Online versus the professional critics paid for a newspaper?
CHELSEY DONN:like a New York Times type article,
JOE KINOSIAN:You know, my knee jerk is certain things I've done that have gotten like, like really positive comments from people online and sometimes the, the masses are more positive, weirdly, we wouldn't necessarily think of that where I think Professional critics have to maintain some level of, uh, dispassionate disconnect.
JOE KINOSIAN:Like, they have to be a little bit too cool to, you know, just heap praise on something, because it's rare that, you know, they do that overwhelmingly.
JOE KINOSIAN:And I think for me too, like, I write silly stuff.
JOE KINOSIAN:I'm putting silly stuff on stage, like, hopefully well crafted, well executed silly stuff, but like, that's not necessarily fodder for the critics to, like, You know, lose their minds, except for, uh, the New York Times did really like Murder for Two, but that's, you know, that's just a separate
TREY GERRALD:Well, because I'm,
JOE KINOSIAN:and that felt really good, which is like, I feel like I shouldn't say that, but then we heard that review, and obviously they were, you know, quoting it in the papers and every, or on the poster, rather, and that was like, uh, I'd be lying if I said that wasn't like, oh my god,
TREY GERRALD:Did the Times review it when it was in Chicago?
JOE KINOSIAN:no, um, the Times just reviewed it when it was in New York.
TREY GERRALD:So what was that process from the overwhelming response in Chicago to how many years passed before it transferred, or before it went to Off Broadway?
JOE KINOSIAN:Well, interestingly enough, this is actually very applicable to what we were saying.
JOE KINOSIAN:The reviews when we opened in Chicago were not super positive.
JOE KINOSIAN:We were supposed to run for five weeks, and I remember after the reviews came out, particularly one famous Chicago paper that shall remain nameless, but was featured heavily in the sitcom Perfect Strangers,
CHELSEY DONN:mm hmm, mm hmm,
JOE KINOSIAN:that, like, the audiences were, there were like 20 people there the night after that, and I was like, oh, so They got us, like, we're done, but people who came and saw the show liked it and started posting about it on TripAdvisor, of all things, and it started to climb the ranks of TripAdvisor, and then at one point during the summer, we were like above the aquarium, and I almost wanted to write in, like, you should go to the aquarium first, like, or do both,
CHELSEY DONN:do both,
JOE KINOSIAN:in a day,
CHELSEY DONN:we're not competing with the Aquarium,
JOE KINOSIAN:no,
CHELSEY DONN:But I think that that's an interesting point and I think it's something that came up a little while ago when the whole Martin Short article came out that was really damning and then the public and the internet and whatever you want to call it was really able to come to his defense and I do think that's sort of fascinating like so often we look at these reviews on the internet as these trolls and horrible haters as we say in our song but you The opposite also exists, right?
CHELSEY DONN:Like, like you said, you got this bad review, but the public made it so much more popular than it was able to transfer off Broadway, so screw that guy, right?
CHELSEY DONN:So there is something interesting about that balance.
TREY GERRALD:I think especially in the culture we're moving into, because now you go see a Broadway show and they literally have pull quotes that are like Twitter user handles.
TREY GERRALD:Like it's not even Brantley, well it's not going to be Brantley, but like we are in a culture where oftentimes the, like all of these huge record breaking Broadway musicals like were almost universally reviewed very poorly.
TREY GERRALD:It's like the crowds that love them.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:No, I was thinking about, we have seemingly all forgotten Wicked opened right when I
CHELSEY DONN:I was good.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:hmm.
JOE KINOSIAN:Wicked got really lackluster reviews, like average as best.
JOE KINOSIAN:And that's of that amazing 2003 season, like all those iconic shows that have stayed with us and Taboo, which was a lot of fun.
JOE KINOSIAN:Uh, like Wicked's the one still doing like, yeah,
CHELSEY DONN:And they recouped their money like faster than I think any other Broadway show.
CHELSEY DONN:Like they broke so many records.
CHELSEY DONN:I do wonder if a part of that is because that time being like the advent of Facebook and this sort of social media, social influence world.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah,
TREY GERRALD:have one more follow up question.
TREY GERRALD:I also want to just explain anyone who has not heard of the musical Murder for Two.
TREY GERRALD:It is a two hander musical.
TREY GERRALD:That means two actor singers who also play the entire score.
TREY GERRALD:So they're both
CHELSEY DONN:like
TREY GERRALD:trained pianists
JOE KINOSIAN:Yep.
CHELSEY DONN:wow.
TREY GERRALD:is a murder mystery where there's the detective is one actor, the other actor is all of the
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, that's so cool.
JOE KINOSIAN:Mm-Hmm?
TREY GERRALD:created the show with Kellan Blair and played all of the suspects in Chicago.
TREY GERRALD:The show went on to Off Broadway, and Joe has done iterations of the production across the country.
TREY GERRALD:So is there
CHELSEY DONN:LA.
CHELSEY DONN:Come to LA.
CHELSEY DONN:I want to see
JOE KINOSIAN:I would
TREY GERRALD:It was at the Geffen, right?
JOE KINOSIAN:it was at
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, was it?
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, but that was before I knew you
TREY GERRALD:I know.
JOE KINOSIAN:or I would've,
TREY GERRALD:But because you...
TREY GERRALD:Because you've done the show so many times, like, when you're doing a production in, like, Wichita, you're not, you're not reading the reviews anymore, or are you?
JOE KINOSIAN:No.
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh.
JOE KINOSIAN:So I got my, my equity card in 2009 and . That was the last time I really read reviews.
JOE KINOSIAN:Because there was one review that it wasn't even mean, it was just like mildly disparaging about like how I was not as important as the other actors, which was true.
JOE KINOSIAN:Um,
CHELSEY DONN:Okay.
JOE KINOSIAN:I was like, yeah, but it like, it, it hurt me in a little, in a, in a way that I was like, Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay away from these.
JOE KINOSIAN:This is why people say to stay away from these.
JOE KINOSIAN:And since then I've, I've kind of been able to, to not, uh, not follow them.
TREY GERRALD:But when you're mounting a show, and producers are truly treating these reviews like they're gold, because it has a huge impact on the livelihood of the production, They're the ones dealing with all of it, right?
TREY GERRALD:Like, you can sort of not have to deal with it because they're gonna look.
JOE KINOSIAN:That's right.
JOE KINOSIAN:And, and that's why they come up.
JOE KINOSIAN:And that's why I know that, uh, the Chicago reviews were what they were because it was like, it was in the, the ether.
JOE KINOSIAN:Like, yeah, it was coming.
JOE KINOSIAN:It was coming at me, even if I didn't see it directly.
JOE KINOSIAN:Uh, yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:And then they, producers often will, will find a way to like, hopefully if they're, they're caring and, and trying to, you know, genuinely improve the production of reading all of the reviews to distill what's really, really good.
JOE KINOSIAN:Universal or like what is a recurring theme that should be addressed in rewrites?
JOE KINOSIAN:And um, yeah, but yeah, I don't know.
JOE KINOSIAN:It's just so funny.
JOE KINOSIAN:Like you just, you have to get your foot in the door so that you're like beyond that because I think so few people really do, really don't care about them at all levels.
JOE KINOSIAN:You know, it's just like you do your thing, we'll do ours.
TREY GERRALD:okay, but you just mentioned rewrites, and I'm curious also for the podcast, Let's Start a Coup, when you get these repeated opinions, did you start to think, Oh, maybe Murder for Two should be less silly?
TREY GERRALD:Should we try to write a song that isn't as silly?
TREY GERRALD:Or are you thinking, Okay, when I'm going on to season two of Let's Start a Coup, should I try to change something about myself?
JOE KINOSIAN:Mmm, yeah, I mean, Kellen and I, writing Murder for Two together, we have a good sense of what we're going for, and what's in line with that goal, and what's not, and I remember the Times review of Murder for Two when we originally opened pointed out one Segment that was, it was a line that got cut between the nonprofit, uh, and then transferring to the commercial production.
JOE KINOSIAN:'cause it was in two theaters in New York,
TREY GERRALD:Oh my god, I forgot about that.
JOE KINOSIAN:Pizza Hutt line
TREY GERRALD:I don't know.
JOE KINOSIAN:we came in after the review came out and we had this dumb line about pizza Hutt.
JOE KINOSIAN:It really was stupid.
JOE KINOSIAN:And the review pointed it out and the producer said in the next meeting, like, well, the times did not care for the pizza hotline.
JOE KINOSIAN:And we thought about, we're like, yeah, that is kind of dumb.
JOE KINOSIAN:So we caught it.
JOE KINOSIAN:We cut it and caught it.
JOE KINOSIAN:We caught it and cut it before it transferred to the commercial production.
JOE KINOSIAN:So I guess in that sense, it was like, okay, we didn't change the whole tone of the show to be a Brechtian drama because, you know, someone didn't get the point, but someone who did get the point was like, you can do better than that, and we probably could.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:on the flip side of these reviews, How impacted is your personal decision making by online reviews?
JOE KINOSIAN:Um,
TREY GERRALD:Like, do you look at reviews ever?
TREY GERRALD:For, like, a restaurant?
JOE KINOSIAN:well, I'm the wrong person to ask because I go to like three restaurants, and I know they're great, because it's, they're the only three restaurants I go
CHELSEY DONN:So what you're saying is you trust no one.
CHELSEY DONN:You trust yourself.
CHELSEY DONN:If you've been
JOE KINOSIAN:I'm wearing a tinfoil hat right now.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah,
CHELSEY DONN:If you've been there and you can vouch for it yourself, you're going.
JOE KINOSIAN:I guess, is it hypocritical if I look at Yelp them?
JOE KINOSIAN:What do you think?
CHELSEY DONN:Is it hypocritical?
CHELSEY DONN:No.
CHELSEY DONN:I mean, I look at Yelp all the time.
CHELSEY DONN:I also ignore the haters.
CHELSEY DONN:I don't, I feel like I exist on all ends of the spectrum.
CHELSEY DONN:And I think that that's what's so great about what Trey and I do and what we'll get into when we get into the crowning of this review is we really are breaking down.
CHELSEY DONN:Like you said, some people have really negative things to say, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to go.
CHELSEY DONN:That doesn't mean that it's a deal breaker for me.
CHELSEY DONN:That might mean that actually, Like your producer was saying might end up being a positive, right?
CHELSEY DONN:Like we read a review a couple weeks ago about a hayride and the person was like, not that scary and I'm afraid of my own shadow.
CHELSEY DONN:So I was like, that is excellent
TREY GERRALD:my hair red.
TREY GERRALD:Right.
CHELSEY DONN:my hayride.
CHELSEY DONN:You know what I mean?
CHELSEY DONN:So, so I do think that there's, there's something
TREY GERRALD:like, if I am the child of the person who created Domino's, I'm going to love that line about Pizza Hut, because Pizza Hut is
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh, yeah.
CHELSEY DONN:Right.
CHELSEY DONN:That's right.
JOE KINOSIAN:maybe it's like the general tenor thing, like kind of how, you know, the producers, smart producers will kind of get the median feedback from the reviews that came out and then say, okay, they're all saying that this part is unclear or whatever it
CHELSEY DONN:right.
CHELSEY DONN:I mean, I think that, yeah, I think that the hardest thing is being branded with like that three and a half stars and just having people completely write you off.
JOE KINOSIAN:Mm hmm.
JOE KINOSIAN:Wait, Chelsey, can I say one other thing that I love when you read my bio?
JOE KINOSIAN:How you were like, um, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, award nominations.
JOE KINOSIAN:You did it exactly right with just nominate, award as loud as you can be, and the nominations like, I'm moving on, moving on, and over here.
CHELSEY DONN:because I get it.
CHELSEY DONN:You know what I mean?
CHELSEY DONN:Like, it's an honor to be nominated.
CHELSEY DONN:You know, it's just an honor to be nominated.
CHELSEY DONN:The rest of it is who knows what.
TREY GERRALD:But like, how many people have been nominated for a Drama Desk Award for a musical?
TREY GERRALD:I mean, it's insane.
TREY GERRALD:It's like, there are these like seven players who are always produced.
TREY GERRALD:How do you write a musical?
TREY GERRALD:Period.
TREY GERRALD:And then get nominated for a trophy.
TREY GERRALD:I mean, it's fucking insane.
TREY GERRALD:Regardless, it really is
CHELSEY DONN:for
JOE KINOSIAN:you, that's
TREY GERRALD:Well, Joe, we're glad that you're here and you are officially crowned and inducted into the Queendom.
TREY GERRALD:So you are now officially a Review Queen.
JOE KINOSIAN:the only award that matters,
CHELSEY DONN:Joe, our most newly crowned Review Queen, I am gonna be reading a review and together you, me, and Trey are going to break it down, rate the impact of the review on a scale from zero to five crowns.
CHELSEY DONN:It is a very regal process that we call
VOICEOVER:Assess That Kvetch, Review That
TREY GERRALD:So Joe, one final question.
TREY GERRALD:Are you ready?
JOE KINOSIAN:yes, bring it,
VOICEOVER:Review,
CHELSEY DONN:All right, today we're going to Yelp for this review.
CHELSEY DONN:This is a place that holds a special place in my heart.
CHELSEY DONN:I don't know about you, but it is called Marie's Crisis.
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh yes.
CHELSEY DONN:is a piano bar in New York City.
CHELSEY DONN:It's a historic piano bar, according to Google, that draws a crowd of gay locals and musical theater performers in dimly lit digs, which I always think about this place as, yes, being very dimly lit, but then they have those rainbow, like Christmas
JOE KINOSIAN:Mm-Hmm?
CHELSEY DONN:It's a vibe, you guys.
JOE KINOSIAN:It's such a vibe.
CHELSEY DONN:When I was living in New York, I personally went to this place several times a week, so I'm gonna just go ahead and say that bias out loud before we get started.
CHELSEY DONN:Maria's Crisis only has three and a half stars.
CHELSEY DONN:on Yelp.
CHELSEY DONN:Now, obviously that's not my opinion, right?
CHELSEY DONN:So this might stop some people from going.
CHELSEY DONN:I don't know if this particular review will have that effect.
CHELSEY DONN:So let's find out together.
CHELSEY DONN:This is a one star review written by Adam L.
CHELSEY DONN:of Marie's Crisis Piano Bar in New York City.
CHELSEY DONN:Here we go.
CHELSEY DONN:This place is a joke.
TREY GERRALD:oof,
CHELSEY DONN:A bunch of vapid and elitist singers.
CHELSEY DONN:That exemplify what is wrong with the Broadway crowd.
TREY GERRALD:oh,
CHELSEY DONN:These sub par chorus actors
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh,
CHELSEY DONN:will make you feel bad.
CHELSEY DONN:For being there, because you're not a regular, This gatekeeping bullshit is ridiculous, The whole time I was there, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, I was just like, Oh, honey, You may be able to carry a tune, But you're still a nobody, end quote, crisis encourages.
CHELSEY DONN:This elitist behavior to make sure that they're drunk, unsuccessful, unhappy, musical theater rejects come back day in and day out, it's called stroking their egos.
JOE KINOSIAN:oh, okay.
CHELSEY DONN:And it's working, failure leads to drinking, and drinking leads to profit, I came in the bar, a huge musical theater fan, But I came out questioning if I even wanted to like it, What a shame, a place can do this to someone I've loved since a child,
JOE KINOSIAN:Wow.
CHELSEY DONN:Do you think this is Adam Lampert?
CHELSEY DONN:No.
TREY GERRALD:no one would be rejecting Adam Lambert from singing,
CHELSEY DONN:I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh my God.
JOE KINOSIAN:Listeners, you need to find a way to see.
JOE KINOSIAN:Chelsey, Read That Review, because her, her body completely changed and you embodied a very angry man.
JOE KINOSIAN:It was great.
CHELSEY DONN:Thank you, thank you.
CHELSEY DONN:Little Patreon plug there if you want to see the,
TREY GERRALD:Body change.
CHELSEY DONN:performance.
JOE KINOSIAN:That was so
TREY GERRALD:so Joe, what are your first, what's there for you?
TREY GERRALD:Have you been to Marie's Crisis?
TREY GERRALD:You have, yes?
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh, just a couple of times.
JOE KINOSIAN:I mean,
TREY GERRALD:Chelsey was like, do you think, do you think that
CHELSEY DONN:I'm like, I hope that he's been,
TREY GERRALD:I feel
CHELSEY DONN:probably been.
JOE KINOSIAN:I have, I have so many thoughts.
JOE KINOSIAN:I don't know where to begin.
JOE KINOSIAN:I wrote down a few keywords like elitist.
JOE KINOSIAN:Crisis is like the cheapest bar for like 10 square miles.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:Unless the drink prices went up since I was last there, I don't think I've been there post lockdown, but I certainly was there in 2019,
CHELSEY DONN:And also go and get a beer.
CHELSEY DONN:You don't want to like mess
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, elitist.
JOE KINOSIAN:I mean, maybe he's meaning like elitist, like leaving people out,
TREY GERRALD:thought elitist as in getting able to sing a song, not the
JOE KINOSIAN:well, you have to
CHELSEY DONN:tip.
CHELSEY DONN:Put a tip in the jar.
JOE KINOSIAN:a tip in the jar and get there early.
JOE KINOSIAN:Like, that's my main thing is like time of day for Marie's crisis.
JOE KINOSIAN:Get, get there when they open.
CHELSEY DONN:crisis to yourself if you're going to go on a Tuesday night.
TREY GERRALD:knows.
JOE KINOSIAN:Correct.
CHELSEY DONN:knows because she's done it many times.
JOE KINOSIAN:You can do most of the score of Annie
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:just your friends,
CHELSEY DONN:done all of Hairspray.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, there you
CHELSEY DONN:woman show, you know?
JOE KINOSIAN:I mean, uh, it was very funny, especially the way you did it, but like there, there was an, a lot of self hatred in this review.
JOE KINOSIAN:Like this is someone who has some
CHELSEY DONN:is someone who didn't get cast in the chorus in high school.
CHELSEY DONN:I'm sorry to say.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:And like you go in there and yeah, it's, it gets really crowded and the floor was last cleaned.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:When Marie ran it, yeah,
TREY GERRALD:So sticky.
JOE KINOSIAN:so sticky and it is dark but dark and cheap and loud can be real pluses if you're in the right frame of mind and if you want to, singing the score to Chicago can be such a joyous experience,
CHELSEY DONN:Agree.
TREY GERRALD:Well, because I'm sort of getting a story of Adam.
TREY GERRALD:Adam keeps separating themselves from the
CHELSEY DONN:Yes.
CHELSEY DONN:Good
TREY GERRALD:So it sounds to me that Adam is a fan of musical theater, heard that was, heard that this is a place to like be amongst them and then really felt alienated.
TREY GERRALD:So Uh,
CHELSEY DONN:And you know what?
CHELSEY DONN:I want to validate that for one second for Adam
TREY GERRALD:can
CHELSEY DONN:I will, I will say that when I first went now, luckily I went with a regular, which I think is a really nice bridge.
CHELSEY DONN:If you have a friend that goes to Marie's all the time and you're thinking about dappling, go with them because that helps.
CHELSEY DONN:But there is this feeling of like, It's sort of like a cheers for gay people and musical theater enthusiasts.
CHELSEY DONN:So, if you're not in the place where everybody knows your name, you're probably gonna feel uncomfortable until you get over that hump.
CHELSEY DONN:But I do think that this review has value in the fact that, yeah, there is a little bit of that.
CHELSEY DONN:In crowd vibe.
TREY GERRALD:for
JOE KINOSIAN:hmm, yeah,
CHELSEY DONN:think that Adam takes it a little bit far and I don't think that Adam was trying to be funny.
JOE KINOSIAN:mm hmm, yeah, mm hmm,
TREY GERRALD:well wait, I want to back up, just for anyone who has, doesn't know what Marie's Crisis is, Marie's Crisis is this tiny, tiny, tiny, little hole in a wall bar that literally has a piano player that has like an extended, like, top that, like, you can put,
CHELSEY DONN:you can sit
TREY GERRALD:he's, like, locked inside of this little, like, square The piano player will play scores to musicals.
TREY GERRALD:You can like sing.
TREY GERRALD:It's like a loud piano bar.
TREY GERRALD:That's really strictly musical theater.
TREY GERRALD:I think it is
JOE KINOSIAN:Mm hmm.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:So that's what Marie's crisis is if you don't know what it is, but I did write down the word vapid, which I just Googled just to make sure I was correct.
JOE KINOSIAN:hmm.
TREY GERRALD:And the definition from the Oxford Dictionary of vapid
CHELSEY DONN:Let's hear it.
TREY GERRALD:offering nothing that is stimulating or challenging and their sentence is, ironically, tuneful but vapid musical comedies.
JOE KINOSIAN:Wow.
TREY GERRALD:weird?
CHELSEY DONN:the example
TREY GERRALD:their sentence that they
JOE KINOSIAN:So it's like insubstantial.
CHELSEY DONN:it say underneath it, like example by Adam L.
CHELSEY DONN:Like, like he like wrote that sentence.
CHELSEY DONN:He's like, let me take this to Oxford, you know?
TREY GERRALD:To your point about humor, I don't know, I also don't think that Adam is intending to be humorous.
TREY GERRALD:There's something, it's really kind of, really exceedingly shady to like, sort of a, We, I feel like we crossed over to like, really inappropriate.
TREY GERRALD:I mean, it's very funny.
CHELSEY DONN:What's, what's the Broadway crowd?
CHELSEY DONN:What do we think that is?
JOE KINOSIAN:I don't,
TREY GERRALD:do you define it?
JOE KINOSIAN:I feel it's not, I don't know.
JOE KINOSIAN:I don't know that it's like people working in theater who go there.
JOE KINOSIAN:It's just people who love it.
JOE KINOSIAN:And I think the love of it is more, it overpowers the vapidity of it.
CHELSEY DONN:yeah, good word.
JOE KINOSIAN:But, is that real?
JOE KINOSIAN:Look that one up.
JOE KINOSIAN:Um, yeah, no, y'all are very insightful.
JOE KINOSIAN:I also don't think for the record that he was trying to be funny.
JOE KINOSIAN:It was like, it definitely came from a place of hurt and being left out, and that's not good for anybody.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah, it is funny, but I think that that's like a side effect of what feels to be this really intense, ostracized feeling
TREY GERRALD:And I think that's funny.
TREY GERRALD:It lands funny to me because I've actually felt that way at Marie's Crisis.
CHELSEY DONN:Yes,
TREY GERRALD:Because I don't I hate karaoke, so it's just a nightmare to begin with.
TREY GERRALD:But when you're there and it's super busy, it's really hard to get a song played because there's all of the regulars.
TREY GERRALD:But I also recognize I'm a visitor here, so I don't know that I would have such a visceral, like, angry reaction.
CHELSEY DONN:So at Marie's, are there solos?
CHELSEY DONN:Yes.
CHELSEY DONN:Are they usually the waiters who work there?
CHELSEY DONN:Yes.
CHELSEY DONN:So, a lot of the songs are sung as a group, right?
CHELSEY DONN:We're all singing this song together.
CHELSEY DONN:So where I'm a little bit confused with Adam and him being such a musical theater stan until this moment, as he claims to be, what is he talking about with the gate keeping or the judgment, right?
CHELSEY DONN:Of the other people singing like, Oh, you may be able to carry a tune, but you're nobody,
TREY GERRALD:a chorus actor.
CHELSEY DONN:what are you getting at?
CHELSEY DONN:When you go to Marie's Crisis, you're there to sing with everybody and maybe you're going to have to sit through, you know, Janet, who was on Broadway in 1975's
JOE KINOSIAN:I love her work, love her
CHELSEY DONN:Love her!
CHELSEY DONN:Like Maggie Worth, who is not there anymore, who was there for like a million years, She wore a Canadian tuxedo every single day, in the summer it was Canadian tuxedo with shorts, and the winter was Canadian Tuxedo with pants, either way both stretchy, and I really appreciated it, and the woman, Was a star nowhere, but she was a star at Marie's and I think that if you're going to come to this place with that kind of judgmental attitude, it's sort of interesting that Adam is calling everybody out for being so judgmental when they were probably judgmental about him because he's Sitting there being like, and you, you're a nobody, like, yeah, if this community who is very tight knit and is sort of looking out for each other as sort of rough around the edges as they might be, they're going to sniff that out and no, they're not going to want you in their house.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
CHELSEY DONN:I think this is a self fulfilled prophecy for Adam.
TREY GERRALD:Yeah, I think, Joe, you picked up on that in the first comment.
TREY GERRALD:It does feel a lot of, like, self hatred as, like, underlining this.
TREY GERRALD:Do you think this is typical?
TREY GERRALD:Do you think, like, this is a common experience going there?
JOE KINOSIAN:I think if you went, I'm curious what time of day or what, what day of the week he went, obviously he went in like later at
CHELSEY DONN:He must have gone like a
JOE KINOSIAN:Saturday night.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:And it probably, it was like, They were pulling requests, but there were a lot of requests in the hat already.
JOE KINOSIAN:And the regulars who are there, when they intersperse their songs, they don't even have to ask what that person's going to sing.
JOE KINOSIAN:Cause Janet always sings Skid Row parentheses downtown.
CHELSEY DONN:You know it!
JOE KINOSIAN:so there is that like, uh, preexisting relationship.
JOE KINOSIAN:And I think you have to have a little bit of.
JOE KINOSIAN:Love and respect for the regulars.
JOE KINOSIAN:I think it's like, when you go into a place like that, it's like, it's, it's their home.
JOE KINOSIAN:It's their community.
JOE KINOSIAN:It's almost like you're a straight person going into a gay bar, which in this context, maybe that is exactly what's happening,
TREY GERRALD:Yes.
CHELSEY DONN:say.
JOE KINOSIAN:but like that level of like, okay, I'm visiting, I want, like, I want to respect what's been predetermined already, if that makes sense.
CHELSEY DONN:Totally.
CHELSEY DONN:What do we think about the business advice that Adam decides to land at the end?
CHELSEY DONN:It's working.
CHELSEY DONN:Failure leads to drinking and drinking leads to profit, like, thank you for that.
CHELSEY DONN:Where's that coming
TREY GERRALD:Well, I think we talked about this early on 'cause I don't necessarily think that the people working on Broadway are going to Marie's crisis on a normal basis.
TREY GERRALD:So I think the people are there out of joy.
TREY GERRALD:They're singing out of joy.
TREY GERRALD:I don't think they're singing from a place of failure,
JOE KINOSIAN:Mm
TREY GERRALD:in my opinion.
TREY GERRALD:But does failure lead to drinking?
TREY GERRALD:Probably.
CHELSEY DONN:Does drinking lead
TREY GERRALD:profit?
TREY GERRALD:I think so, right.
CHELSEY DONN:Ah ha!
TREY GERRALD:very, bars aren't going anywhere.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:But that does feel, it does feel emblematic
CHELSEY DONN:It does, it does feel, yeah, the,
TREY GERRALD:like an outsider coming in and
CHELSEY DONN:the outside.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah, exactly.
CHELSEY DONN:That's
JOE KINOSIAN:sing Waving Through a Window, you'll feel better, Adam.
CHELSEY DONN:right.
CHELSEY DONN:I know, I know.
JOE KINOSIAN:also, this is the road that led him to discover he didn't like musicals.
JOE KINOSIAN:Well, it's a much cheaper road than going to see a show.
TREY GERRALD:much cheaper than
CHELSEY DONN:we're getting a BFA.
CHELSEY DONN:Right.
TREY GERRALD:Yes.
JOE KINOSIAN:You got a beer, you probably heard at least one song you liked.
CHELSEY DONN:relax.
JOE KINOSIAN:got a Heineken, you got a lifetime of stick on your shoes you will never get off.
CHELSEY DONN:Oh my God, yes.
JOE KINOSIAN:But even that I find kind of charming.
JOE KINOSIAN:I don't know if that's weird.
JOE KINOSIAN:I'm partial to this place, so, there you go.
TREY GERRALD:I know.
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh Adam, Adam, I hope you're okay.
TREY GERRALD:do you think Adam was writing this getting an ice cream cone at Big Gay Ice Cream?
TREY GERRALD:Just mad
CHELSEY DONN:think, yeah, I think that he's, he's writing a song called Since a Child, um, at, at Big Gay Ice Cream next door and he's like, Since a child, I had a dream
JOE KINOSIAN:ha ha ha
CHELSEY DONN:of dreams and time gone by.
TREY GERRALD:Alright, so, before we crown, Is there, is this a deal breaker?
TREY GERRALD:If reading this, and you're from Milwaukee, and you're excited to go to Marie's Crisis, is this going to have an impact on you?
TREY GERRALD:I don't know, I mean If I've never been there and I'm reading reviews of Marie's Crisis,
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, it's a good question.
JOE KINOSIAN:Because, I mean, I'm a kind of introverted musical theater person, And maybe this would put me off, but I have to, You were saying the reviews are pretty average on The
CHELSEY DONN:three and a half overall,
JOE KINOSIAN:bad, that really is too bad, because
CHELSEY DONN:but also maybe it's good because it keeps the atoms
TREY GERRALD:But who's writing a review of Marie's Crisis?
CHELSEY DONN:I should, I really should for all the times I
JOE KINOSIAN:this kind of makes me want to write one, just saying, they're doing
CHELSEY DONN:to get that up to a 3.
CHELSEY DONN:8, you know?
TREY GERRALD:gonna have
JOE KINOSIAN:and they're working so hard, it's a live piano player who can do literally anything you want, really good.
TREY GERRALD:Yeah, how do you get that
CHELSEY DONN:and they're talented, they're really talented, you know, like, they have to be so good to be able to play all this music, and,
JOE KINOSIAN:keys, and they know that when I've had two martinis that you're never fully dressed without a smile has to be slower,
CHELSEY DONN:right,
JOE KINOSIAN:know?
CHELSEY DONN:ah yes, they can adjust the tempo based on how many drinks
JOE KINOSIAN:Like it turns into like a real strut.
TREY GERRALD:Alright, I think I could crown
CHELSEY DONN:okay, let's go, let's go into the crowning, and I'm gonna do a little Maggie Worth impersonation in the after show, so, if that's not a reason to join Patreon, I don't know what is,
TREY GERRALD:Joe, you ready to
JOE KINOSIAN:Yes, I'm writing my number really big on marker.
CHELSEY DONN:okay, perfect,
TREY GERRALD:So, Chelsey, Joe, and I all have our own set of zero to five crown cards.
TREY GERRALD:In an effort to be fair and not influence one another, we will simultaneously reveal our rating.
VOICEOVER:The Queens are tabulating.
VOICEOVER:Total Score.
CHELSEY DONN:Okay, Joe and I are unanimous with two crowns, Trey's coming in with one and a half.
CHELSEY DONN:Joe, you go first.
CHELSEY DONN:Tell us why you gave two crowns to Adam Lambert, I mean Adam L.
JOE KINOSIAN:Well, Adam Pascal.
JOE KINOSIAN:Uh, well, um, listening to y'all talk about the exclusionary component boosted it a little bit for me.
JOE KINOSIAN:Cause at first I was like, how dare you come into this semi sacred space.
CHELSEY DONN:Yes,
JOE KINOSIAN:With no windows, and no fire escape, and, And tell people that they're not doing it right, When all they're trying to do is express their love, For this horribly marginalized art form,
CHELSEY DONN:that's right.
JOE KINOSIAN:But then you think of how musical theater people, As you're saying Trey, can be, can be a little bit like, Uh, you've never heard of the Golden Apple from 1954, Nevermind, you know, or like, can't, can't talk about anything else, So, that boosted it a little bit, and I feel for Adam, and I want Adam to find his tribe, so I, I raised it probably by one, from where it would have been.
TREY GERRALD:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:I feel it.
TREY GERRALD:Chelsey, why did you say two?
CHELSEY DONN:Very similar reasoning to Joe.
CHELSEY DONN:There was a part of my heart that just, I think, connected here with Adam and I do feel, I relate to the idea of feeling excluded and I do think there is a little bit of that vibe.
CHELSEY DONN:So I think that if I did read this review prior to going to Marie's, like, let's say I read A really good five star and I read this, I think it falls somewhere in between those two and I do think there's value there and that was why I went with two crowns, but I do think this is a lot about Adam and not a lot about Marie's and a lot of sort of name throwing and a lot of bullying for someone who's been bullied, so for that reason I couldn't go above two crowns, but I did want to throw them, throw them the two, not quite middle of the road as Trey likes to say, but Trey went with two crowns.
CHELSEY DONN:for a full crown below middle of the road with that one and a half, so let us know why.
TREY GERRALD:So I said one and a half because ultimately I just think it's really mean spirited that there are some truths in here perhaps, but I think they are truths to someone that is.
JOE KINOSIAN:hmm.
TREY GERRALD:I also just, the whole assessment of a community of people when you aren't in the community of people just feels icky to me.
TREY GERRALD:And saying singers in quotes, like the first sentence or two sentences is like, singers in quotations, like, it's just so shady.
JOE KINOSIAN:I'm sorry.
TREY GERRALD:Um, that even so, I, if I agree on some of the points, this would not have, like, a deal breaking impact for me, I would want to read other reviews, so I just said one and a half,
JOE KINOSIAN:making me rea Can I tell a little anecdote?
CHELSEY DONN:Yes,
JOE KINOSIAN:my friend David and I said a long time ago, which is, We said it about gay men, but I think it's actually just true about musical theater fans.
JOE KINOSIAN:We're the only people who can cry while judging, and we saw this high school production of Once on this Island That was perf no.
JOE KINOSIAN:We've all seen that production, too.
CHELSEY DONN:Wait, what did you say in my life?
JOE KINOSIAN:No, Once on this Island.
JOE KINOSIAN:We can talk about in my life forever.
JOE KINOSIAN:That was
CHELSEY DONN:a shoe pork alone.
JOE KINOSIAN:So this production of Once on this Island was performed by high schoolers who had survived Hurricane Katrina.
JOE KINOSIAN:So they were, they were amazing.
JOE KINOSIAN:They were so talented.
JOE KINOSIAN:They did a great job and the audience is sobbing start to finish cause you know, it's so emotional that show already.
JOE KINOSIAN:And then you combine it with the fact of who they were.
JOE KINOSIAN:But then when they sing the song Ti Moune.
JOE KINOSIAN:Uh, the girl playing Ti Moune said, um, now I go without one backward look while she's leaving her parents, right?
JOE KINOSIAN:And she was facing her parents.
JOE KINOSIAN:So I was like, you're talking about not doing a backward look while you're looking backward.
JOE KINOSIAN:So I'm like tears running down my face, but I'm like, that's not what the text
CHELSEY DONN:my God.
CHELSEY DONN:That's hilarious.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:gonna, you
CHELSEY DONN:really emotional, but I'm also like, who, what was like,
JOE KINOSIAN:That's an interesting choice.
CHELSEY DONN:thinking?
CHELSEY DONN:What was the director thinking?
JOE KINOSIAN:If, if you were in that production listening, you did a great job.
JOE KINOSIAN:I was just like a one choice.
JOE KINOSIAN:I would've, you know, had a quibble with
TREY GERRALD:whoa,
CHELSEY DONN:That's okay.
CHELSEY DONN:That's how my mom always was when she would come see me in a show.
CHELSEY DONN:Everyone will be like, you were so great.
CHELSEY DONN:She's like, I've noticed the mistake you made, you
TREY GERRALD:oi, gavolt, wee
JOE KINOSIAN:God.
TREY GERRALD:wee oo, wee oo, it's game time!
CHELSEY DONN:Oh my goodness.
CHELSEY DONN:Here we go.
TREY GERRALD:Today I have formulated a one of a kind, never existed before game, specific to Joe.
TREY GERRALD:So listeners, you're gonna play along, and we're gonna find out together.
TREY GERRALD:Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
TREY GERRALD:of the game is, Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
TREY GERRALD:So I have selected ten Broadway openings, overtures, first down beats of a musical,
CHELSEY DONN:I don't stand a chance, I'm just
TREY GERRALD:and Chelsey is gonna compete against Joe.
JOE KINOSIAN:you're gonna be great.
JOE KINOSIAN:We're gonna get this
TREY GERRALD:In full disclosure, some of these songs...
TREY GERRALD:Will be a chord.
TREY GERRALD:Some of these songs, I think the longest clip I have is 35 seconds.
TREY GERRALD:So in fairness,
JOE KINOSIAN:I'm just kidding.
JOE KINOSIAN:. I dunno.
TREY GERRALD:I originally had a concept of doing musicals for Joe and doing operas for Chelsea just so that she
JOE KINOSIAN:Ah,
TREY GERRALD:Really lose but
CHELSEY DONN:Chelsea's gonna lose anyway, it's fine.
TREY GERRALD:Okay.
TREY GERRALD:So just in the vein of Adam L If any of our listeners do not know Broadway Overtures from Accord, we're gonna include them in the community so we're gonna let all of the clips play out in their entirety, but When you, Chelsey, when you, Joe, when you, listener, when you know the show you're gonna shout out So, Kinosian!
TREY GERRALD:Okay, so that way we'll determine who gets to go first, Chelsey or Joe.
TREY GERRALD:And then when the clip ends, I will ask for the answer.
TREY GERRALD:If you are incorrect, the other contestant gets a chance to guess,
CHELSEY DONN:Having heard the whole clip,
TREY GERRALD:and the other person's guess.
TREY GERRALD:So okay, and I'm looking for the name of the show, and
CHELSEY DONN:Not the composer, I'm never gonna, no, no, no.
TREY GERRALD:I wasn't gonna say that, I'm looking for the actual title of the track of the
CHELSEY DONN:no,
TREY GERRALD:So it needs to be...
TREY GERRALD:It
JOE KINOSIAN:So some are overtures and some are just like openings, opening numbers.
CHELSEY DONN:Yes.
TREY GERRALD:So, one more time, we're gonna be playing, Do You Kinosian?
TREY GERRALD:This Broadway Overture, or opening of the show.
TREY GERRALD:Alright, Chelsey and Joe, are you ready to play?
TREY GERRALD:Okay, here we go, number one.
JOE KINOSIAN:Kinosian.
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh, one,
CHELSEY DONN:That was me, I won, I clearly,
TREY GERRALD:I think it was Chelsey.
TREY GERRALD:Chelsey, what is it?
CHELSEY DONN:okay, um, that was Hairspray, and the song was Good Morning Baltimore,
JOE KINOSIAN:Woo.
TREY GERRALD:Chelsey, you are right.
JOE KINOSIAN:Mark Shaman composer.
JOE KINOSIAN:Can I get partial credit?
CHELSEY DONN:All those EPAs definitely came in handy,
JOE KINOSIAN:Can we play this all day?
JOE KINOSIAN:This is like the most fun I've ever had.
TREY GERRALD:do you know the composer and lyricists?
CHELSEY DONN:uh, no, I don't know, I don't go that deep, but Joe
TREY GERRALD:of the game, but Joe, what, who are they?
JOE KINOSIAN:I know Mark Shaman is the, is it Scott Whitman?
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:I know Mark Shaman's composer.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
CHELSEY DONN:amazing, I love that, okay,
TREY GERRALD:Okay, get ready.
TREY GERRALD:Here we go.
TREY GERRALD:Number two.
TREY GERRALD:You ready?
TREY GERRALD:Do you Kinosian this Broadway overture?
JOE KINOSIAN:Kinshian!
CHELSEY DONN:Kinosian,
TREY GERRALD:All right, that was clearly Joe.
JOE KINOSIAN:That's from the Phantom of the Opera, and I believe that is the overture, but I believe it plays after the little, um, A collector's piece.
TREY GERRALD:Yeah, there's a scene.
TREY GERRALD:Locked 666.
JOE KINOSIAN:I need to nerd out for a moment.
JOE KINOSIAN:I love that that show starts and with just a long book scene
TREY GERRALD:I know!
TREY GERRALD:Also, it was funny to me compiling these.
TREY GERRALD:Oh, wait, you're right.
CHELSEY DONN:that's correct,
TREY GERRALD:Because the, just the like synthesizer sound is such a giveaway.
JOE KINOSIAN:oh totally it's of the era
TREY GERRALD:we're tied.
TREY GERRALD:You both have a correct.
TREY GERRALD:So here we go.
TREY GERRALD:Number three.
TREY GERRALD:Wait, really?
CHELSEY DONN:Kinosian, is it?
CHELSEY DONN:Is it, um, is it Peter
TREY GERRALD:have any?
TREY GERRALD:Are you guessing?
CHELSEY DONN:Is it Peter Pan?
TREY GERRALD:ends if you're guessing.
CHELSEY DONN:I'm guessing.
CHELSEY DONN:I'll guess Peter Pan.
CHELSEY DONN:Okay.
CHELSEY DONN:Joe,
TREY GERRALD:Joe, I'm gonna, do you want a hint?
JOE KINOSIAN:i would love a hint i don't think i get it though
TREY GERRALD:Well, I don't know how
CHELSEY DONN:just play it.
CHELSEY DONN:You want to just play it again?
TREY GERRALD:it one more time, and just think, this is produced a lot,
CHELSEY DONN:I have a second guess.
JOE KINOSIAN:forever plaid no
CHELSEY DONN:the nut?
CHELSEY DONN:Is it the Nutcracker?
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, geez, Louise.
TREY GERRALD:let me do, let me do another hint, it's the same composer as Phantom of the Opera,
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, Little Night Music?
CHELSEY DONN:Oh,
JOE KINOSIAN:an andrew lloyd weber show Uh, Whistle Down the Wind,
TREY GERRALD:What was Andrew Lloyd Webber's first musical?
JOE KINOSIAN:Joseph?
JOE KINOSIAN:Joseph was his first.
VOICEOVER:you for watching!
CHELSEY DONN:It's Joseph.
TREY GERRALD:Some folks dream of the wonders they'll do,
JOE KINOSIAN:I only know the 1968 first recording, the one where Quentin Blake of Roald Dahl fame did the illustrations, so I, uh, I should know that.
JOE KINOSIAN:So Trey, you're right.
JOE KINOSIAN:That, that smirk you're giving me is correct.
TREY GERRALD:I just thought, I, I love that you guys didn't know it, I thought it was really obvious, which is why I made it three, because I thought it would be too
CHELSEY DONN:I mean, you thought it'd be obvious.
CHELSEY DONN:You remember the Little Bow Wow Woman?
CHELSEY DONN:I mean, did you think that all of a sudden I was going to become a new human?
TREY GERRALD:All right, here we go.
TREY GERRALD:So this one,
JOE KINOSIAN:yeah, yeah, go ahead.
TREY GERRALD:yes, Jacob and Sons.
JOE KINOSIAN:Jacob and Sons is the first
TREY GERRALD:four.
TREY GERRALD:Do you Kinosian this Broadway overture?
JOE KINOSIAN:Kinosian!
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, I think, I know, I think I can it now, but Joe beat me obviously.
VOICEOVER:The
VOICEOVER:Star Spangled Banner
TREY GERRALD:All right, Joe, you were, you got it.
TREY GERRALD:What do you think it is?
JOE KINOSIAN:I believe it is Les Misérables, um, but is the song called Look Down or is it?
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah, I think it's looked
TREY GERRALD:tough.
JOE KINOSIAN:Is it?
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:it's not.
TREY GERRALD:It's called Overture, Work Song.
JOE KINOSIAN:Work song.
CHELSEY DONN:works, but still I,
TREY GERRALD:But then in some, they also call it a prologue, like in the libretto, but not on the track.
TREY GERRALD:So we're just gonna, you knew it was Les
CHELSEY DONN:That was a point for Joe.
CHELSEY DONN:That's two to one.
CHELSEY DONN:I got there, but not, not as fast as Kian.
TREY GERRALD:here we go.
TREY GERRALD:This one, this one is, well, we'll see.
TREY GERRALD:I don't know.
TREY GERRALD:Here we go.
CHELSEY DONN:Oh God.
CHELSEY DONN:Okay.
TREY GERRALD:Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
JOE KINOSIAN:Kinosian.
CHELSEY DONN:Already?
JOE KINOSIAN:Sorry.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, I know.
JOE KINOSIAN:I'd know that D5 to a C major 7 anywhere.
TREY GERRALD:Alright, what is it?
JOE KINOSIAN:That is into the woods.
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, I'm
JOE KINOSIAN:And that is,
CHELSEY DONN:Woods fan, I'm sorry to say.
JOE KINOSIAN:oh, you're not?
JOE KINOSIAN:Okay.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:Uh, I.
CHELSEY DONN:it's controversial.
JOE KINOSIAN:um, pros and cons for sure, because, you know, it does have some lines that really wishes are children, but, you know, it's, it's got a lot of good stuff.
TREY GERRALD:Wait, that, Mark Tuminelli, friend of the pod, that's his, he like cringes at that,
JOE KINOSIAN:It's a tough lyric for a song.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, it's a little, it's a little corny.
TREY GERRALD:Okay, here we go.
CHELSEY DONN:That was so good, though, my God.
JOE KINOSIAN:know.
JOE KINOSIAN:I believe it's called prologue,
TREY GERRALD:You're
CHELSEY DONN:doubt.
JOE KINOSIAN:classic title, you know,
TREY GERRALD:Okay, here we go.
TREY GERRALD:Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
CHELSEY DONN:Kinosian?
CHELSEY DONN:Kinosian.
JOE KINOSIAN:Kinosian,
TREY GERRALD:Sadly, Joe went into the original choreography instead of saying the word
JOE KINOSIAN:I forget.
TREY GERRALD:So, um, Chelsey, you got it.
TREY GERRALD:What do you think that
CHELSEY DONN:That's, that's, that's Fiddler.
CHELSEY DONN:That's Fiddler on the Roof.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yes, yes.
JOE KINOSIAN:The literal
TREY GERRALD:song called?
CHELSEY DONN:Overture.
CHELSEY DONN:Fiddler, the fiddler on the roof.
CHELSEY DONN:It's okay.
CHELSEY DONN:I got the point.
CHELSEY DONN:Tradition!
TREY GERRALD:Okay, here we
CHELSEY DONN:Tradition!
CHELSEY DONN:Thank you.
TREY GERRALD:All right.
TREY GERRALD:So, oh, Chelsey, you're doing so much better than I thought.
TREY GERRALD:so proud of you.
CHELSEY DONN:That's only because Joe broke into the choreography and hadn't had a moment.
JOE KINOSIAN:How can you hear that and not
CHELSEY DONN:I know, I
JOE KINOSIAN:bottle dance?
CHELSEY DONN:know.
CHELSEY DONN:Dun dun dun dun dun.
TREY GERRALD:All right, here we go.
TREY GERRALD:Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, Kinosian.
TREY GERRALD:Alright,
CHELSEY DONN:Last Five Years.
TREY GERRALD:Chelsey.
TREY GERRALD:Chelsey!
TREY GERRALD:Whoa!
CHELSEY DONN:Jason Robert Brown.
TREY GERRALD:Have you ever heard of The Last Five Years, Joe?
JOE KINOSIAN:No.
TREY GERRALD:Oh, what is that called?
TREY GERRALD:What's that called, Chelsey?
TREY GERRALD:What's the track called?
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, God.
CHELSEY DONN:I'm really bad with the name of songs.
CHELSEY DONN:I will always...
CHELSEY DONN:Oh.
CHELSEY DONN:Dun dun dun
TREY GERRALD:Okay guys,
JOE KINOSIAN:Jamie is over and Jamie is gone.
JOE KINOSIAN:That one.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:so we have,
JOE KINOSIAN:show very well.
CHELSEY DONN:to move on.
JOE KINOSIAN:Trey, we're singing.
JOE KINOSIAN:I know you're trying to play the game, but there's a song
CHELSEY DONN:there's a song happening.
CHELSEY DONN:It's we, I mean, we just talked about Marie's.
CHELSEY DONN:How come we not,
TREY GERRALD:Okay, so we have three more, plus...
TREY GERRALD:Plus a tiebreaker.
TREY GERRALD:So here we go.
JOE KINOSIAN:We're neck and
CHELSEY DONN:You're gonna win.
CHELSEY DONN:You're gonna win.
TREY GERRALD:Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
VOICEOVER:I'm Joe Kinosian, I'll see you in the next video.
CHELSEY DONN:So pretty.
CHELSEY DONN:I like the end.
TREY GERRALD:Joe, do you know?
JOE KINOSIAN:I believe that's Oklahoma.
CHELSEY DONN:Oh,
TREY GERRALD:Very good, Joe.
JOE KINOSIAN:The first like couple measures could have been literally any origin.
JOE KINOSIAN:It's like
CHELSEY DONN:man.
CHELSEY DONN:For a second.
CHELSEY DONN:I didn't know where we
TREY GERRALD:Yeah, very traditional.
JOE KINOSIAN:unspecific.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yes.
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh, it's, uh, those are the days when they could afford orchestras.
CHELSEY DONN:know.
CHELSEY DONN:Wasn't that so
JOE KINOSIAN:of
CHELSEY DONN:That was, that was gorgeous.
TREY GERRALD:All right.
JOE KINOSIAN:love it.
TREY GERRALD:Do you Kinosian this Broadway Overture?
JOE KINOSIAN:The face.
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh, uh, Kinosian,
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, it's, I know, Kinosian.
VOICEOVER:My
TREY GERRALD:All right, Joe, you were first.
JOE KINOSIAN:The Producers,
CHELSEY DONN:it's just probably Overture, right?
CHELSEY DONN:Because it was like a bunch of the, I heard Springtime for Hitler in there.
TREY GERRALD:Also, I really struggled with, um, Good Morning Baltimore because there actually is an overture that is not on the cast recording.
TREY GERRALD:That
JOE KINOSIAN:there is,
TREY GERRALD:that leads into the beginning of Good Morning Baltimore, but it's
JOE KINOSIAN:don't even remember that from seeing the play,
TREY GERRALD:It's like,
JOE KINOSIAN:couple seconds,
TREY GERRALD:and it's more or less the same.
CHELSEY DONN:interesting.
TREY GERRALD:All right, here we go.
TREY GERRALD:Here is our final one of the main round Now, get ready, cause, just get ready, it's the last one on purpose,
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, no.
CHELSEY DONN:Okay.
CHELSEY DONN:That
JOE KINOSIAN:scared,
CHELSEY DONN:Kinosian,
JOE KINOSIAN:Kinosian, if it's what I think it is.
CHELSEY DONN:Kinosian.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah, for sure.
CHELSEY DONN:I
JOE KINOSIAN:yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
VOICEOVER:Outro For My 20th Birthday
TREY GERRALD:alright, well, Chelsey, you were first,
CHELSEY DONN:so I think this is Chicago.
CHELSEY DONN:I'm wrong!
JOE KINOSIAN:You're so close though.
JOE KINOSIAN:You're like a couple letters off.
TREY GERRALD:you're so close, alright, Joe, you did
CHELSEY DONN:oh, wait, what was I wrong?
JOE KINOSIAN:should get half a point for that because that's the same composer as Cabaret.
CHELSEY DONN:it's Kevin Ray,
JOE KINOSIAN:from Cabaret.
TREY GERRALD:yes,
CHELSEY DONN:okay, okay, all right, well, at least I got the same composer,
TREY GERRALD:you don't get a point,
CHELSEY DONN:that's okay, I didn't give myself
TREY GERRALD:you're not our guest, alright, here we are, so, ironically, Chelsey has three, and Joe has six, but, this is the tiebreaker,
JOE KINOSIAN:But this is for the game.
TREY GERRALD:This is for the game, so this is actually worth 10 points,
JOE KINOSIAN:my God.
CHELSEY DONN:well, okay,
TREY GERRALD:could win, you ready?
CHELSEY DONN:yeah,
JOE KINOSIAN:Yes.
JOE KINOSIAN:Kinosian.
CHELSEY DONN:is this your show?
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
JOE KINOSIAN:I
CHELSEY DONN:Kinosian, because I know how his brain works,
TREY GERRALD:Alright Joe, you were first,
JOE KINOSIAN:believe that's Murder for Two, the Drama Desk nominated hit of several years back.
CHELSEY DONN:gonna say that's insider baseball, but I'll allow it.
TREY GERRALD:no, so Joe, what is that titled?
JOE KINOSIAN:It's Prelude, right?
JOE KINOSIAN:Prelude and Waiting in the Dark?
TREY GERRALD:Just Prelude.
TREY GERRALD:So why is it, so what is a prelude?
TREY GERRALD:Why not an overture or a prologue?
TREY GERRALD:What is a prelude?
JOE KINOSIAN:well because an overture is definitionally taking parts from other songs and our prelude was like, you know, it's before the like show really gets going, but it's, it's, it was an original thing.
JOE KINOSIAN:It uses at the very end the piece of another song, but it's mostly, um, original.
TREY GERRALD:Well Joe, a huge sweep here, yeah, a real landslide.
JOE KINOSIAN:Stevie Nicks!
TREY GERRALD:Congratulations, Joe!
TREY GERRALD:You are the winner!
JOE KINOSIAN:I'm honored.
JOE KINOSIAN:Chelsey, you did great.
JOE KINOSIAN:You
CHELSEY DONN:you.
CHELSEY DONN:I do, you know, I feel like prouder of myself than I thought I would at the end of this, I will say.
CHELSEY DONN:I don't think it completely embarrassed myself and my family.
JOE KINOSIAN:No.
JOE KINOSIAN:No.
TREY GERRALD:I do have one final question, though.
TREY GERRALD:So I chose the prelude, so let's not speak, and I just want to play it for a second, because I have a question for you.
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, okay.
TREY GERRALD:Okay, I think it's so funny, but it's music.
TREY GERRALD:How do you do that,
JOE KINOSIAN:My God, thank you.
JOE KINOSIAN:That is the absolute best compliment I could get on that, because that was exactly the idea, is to set up that this is a zany show, but set up that the two actors are really gonna play well for you and, like, have a lot, um, the music is gonna factor in very...
JOE KINOSIAN:heavily, but it was just really funny to me that, that the one actor would have all the, all the complicated stuff high up on the piano and the other would just play one single note in response, like, like a very unhelpful scene partner, just meh.
JOE KINOSIAN:And so, you know, he tries playing really quietly and sweetly and the other guy bangs on the piano and then he plays really loud and the other one does like a real soft one.
JOE KINOSIAN:And I was also thinking of like, what would be fun to act?
JOE KINOSIAN:Cause even as a, when I'm thinking musically, I'm still thinking like an actor.
JOE KINOSIAN:Because that person is on stage, they're still helping tell the story, no matter what.
JOE KINOSIAN:And so I was like, it would be funny to make faces while you were doing something like that.
TREY GERRALD:and when did that piece get developed?
TREY GERRALD:Was the show sort of formed already, or was that the first thing?
JOE KINOSIAN:no, it was, um, so we had the world premiere in Chicago, and then it was added when we came to New York, and it was actually, can I drop a little bit of a name?
CHELSEY DONN:always.
TREY GERRALD:Was it Sondheim?
JOE KINOSIAN:No, it wasn't.
JOE KINOSIAN:Although he did say he liked it.
JOE KINOSIAN:Uh,
CHELSEY DONN:Oh,
JOE KINOSIAN:I wasn't there, but I heard.
JOE KINOSIAN:No, um, it was Stephen Schwartz of Wicked fame, who
CHELSEY DONN:Oh,
TREY GERRALD:his son directed, right?
JOE KINOSIAN:his son directed it.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yep.
JOE KINOSIAN:Uh, Scott Schwartz directed it.
JOE KINOSIAN:And, um, Stephen Schwartz came to a preview and was like, I really liked the first song, but I feel like it doesn't demonstrate virtuosic piano playing and could you do something that starts it off that was like virtuosic, would that just like give the audience more of an understanding of the show?
JOE KINOSIAN:So the assignment was just Exciting, complicated, like, Grieg esque, complex piano music, and then I was like, oh, let's also, like, think of what they're doing and, like, how physically that could be funny, because the show ends with a very physical piano thing that's just playing too,
CHELSEY DONN:So cool.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, thanks, that's really sweet of you, Trey, thank you for
CHELSEY DONN:So, so captivating from the second it starts.
CHELSEY DONN:I love it.
JOE KINOSIAN:I also like, one of my favorite quotes about music, I know we're going
TREY GERRALD:No,
JOE KINOSIAN:you'll, you'll love this, is a critic asked Adi DeFranco, where her, her guitar voice came from, like her jangly, dee da da da dum bum bum, dee da, like that, sort of like, and she said it was from playing piano bars.
JOE KINOSIAN:That she loved to be really loud and then go completely silent because that was the only thing that shut the crowd up.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, and so I was also like the idea of like playing something like you heard really loud and then a lot of pause just to like make people self conscious and shut up and pay attention.
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah.
CHELSEY DONN:That's so smart.
TREY GERRALD:and when you listen to it, because I saw the show multiple times in person, but when you listen to the cast recording, just the, it's so funny, even without seeing the physical comedy or the character interplay, you just get, it's like, fabulous.
TREY GERRALD:Like it, it plays
JOE KINOSIAN:Never takes itself seriously.
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah, totally.
CHELSEY DONN:Wow.
TREY GERRALD:this has truly been so much fun.
CHELSEY DONN:fun.
TREY GERRALD:whole rigmarole is not gonna end here.
TREY GERRALD:We are gonna pop over to Patreon, but Joe, thank you so much for joining us today.
TREY GERRALD:We love you so dearly.
TREY GERRALD:Thank you for helping build credibility for our podcast by giving us such an amazing theme song.
TREY GERRALD:I mean it really It was one of the most repeated bits of compliment that we, I got when we first started, it was like, holy shit, because it's the first thing you hear,
CHELSEY DONN:Yeah.
TREY GERRALD:you can all follow Joe on Instagram, this is an update,
JOE KINOSIAN:it's new.
CHELSEY DONN:Whoo.
TREY GERRALD:Kinzo, that's J-O-E-K-I-N-Z-O.
TREY GERRALD:You could listen to the podcast.
TREY GERRALD:Let's start a coup exclamation mark on all of the podcast players that exist.
TREY GERRALD:Listeners, if you are interested and you would like to license Murder for Two at a theater near you, you can obtain the performance right.
TREY GERRALD:at concordtheatricals.
TREY GERRALD:com.
TREY GERRALD:To learn more about Joe and his frequent writing partner that I personally love, Kellan Blair, you can visit kinosianandblair.
TREY GERRALD:com.
TREY GERRALD:Joe, are there any projects, any things on the horizon that you could maybe tease or not tease?
JOE KINOSIAN:Everything is very nebulous.
JOE KINOSIAN:As I told you, um, I did a musical called, It Came From Outer Space, premiered at Chicago Shakespeare last summer, and there will hopefully be another production of that, uh, somewhere wonderful, uh, before too long, but it's definitely, you know, in, in the works.
JOE KINOSIAN:See Murder for Two if it's in your city.
TREY GERRALD:Yes.
CHELSEY DONN:sure.
CHELSEY DONN:Well, okay.
CHELSEY DONN:Before we jump over onto our Patreon, Joe, we like to ask our guests one final question.
CHELSEY DONN:What is one piece of advice you'd give on how to manage and handle online haters?
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh, put down your phone and read a book, honest to God,
CHELSEY DONN:Get them out.
JOE KINOSIAN:I read a book called Stolen Focus, and it's just basically about how dangerous the habit of a smartphone can be, and it really inspired me to like, okay, definitely got to like, continue the uphill climb because I want to, I want to look at it right now, you know, but the uphill climb of like focusing and getting your focus back and, um, using your time for you and not for what you think you should be doing, which is.
JOE KINOSIAN:Wasting time.
CHELSEY DONN:Love that.
JOE KINOSIAN:No judgment, but cause you know, we're all, we're all in this together.
JOE KINOSIAN:But, uh, yeah, that was very inspiring.
CHELSEY DONN:true.
CHELSEY DONN:It's so true because we feel like the whole world exists on our smartphones because we're on them all the time, but the reality is it doesn't and there's life outside of your smartphone and I'm not quoting Avenue Q, you know?
JOE KINOSIAN:Oh, there you go.
TREY GERRALD:But, but I appreciate your point of view in the world of creating with both sides being true of valuing and not valuing reviews and opinions and how it doesn't stop you from creating because that can stop a lot of people but it hasn't stopped you which is very inspiring.
JOE KINOSIAN:Well, thank you.
JOE KINOSIAN:I mean, uh, uh, there's that Warhol quote about make art and then while people are talking about it, make more art.
JOE KINOSIAN:And that's a good guideline.
JOE KINOSIAN:It's like there, people are going to say all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons and just,
CHELSEY DONN:love that quote.
TREY GERRALD:Well we did it Queens, that is another round on the RUARQ Ferris Wheel of RUARQ.
TREY GERRALD:Did you get it?
TREY GERRALD:I did the, I did the prelude.
JOE KINOSIAN:yeah, oh no.
JOE KINOSIAN:I got it.
CHELSEY DONN:If you like what you heard, please tell a friend.
TREY GERRALD:If you did not like what you heard, please tell an enemy.
CHELSEY DONN:On this week's After Show Pod, we are diving deeper with Joe as we rate and review a one star review he personally received.
CHELSEY DONN:Ignore
TREY GERRALD:Uh oh.
JOE KINOSIAN:Can't wait.
TREY GERRALD:And Joe is also going to take a spin on the Meryl Go Round.
TREY GERRALD:And somehow, this got said.
JOE KINOSIAN:These are your Review Queens!
TREY GERRALD:And as always, remember,
CHELSEY DONN:the haters!
CHELSEY DONN:You're a queen!
CHELSEY DONN:Oh, Manga,
TREY GERRALD:gender non specific, Queen.
TREY GERRALD:Buh bye!
JOE KINOSIAN:Bye.
VOICEOVER:Sign up directly on Apple Podcast to hear our weekly members only after show unlock additional benefits when you become a Patreon member@reviewthatreview.com slash patreon.
VOICEOVER:Follow us on all the socials at the review queens and join our mailing list@reviewthatreview.com.
VOICEOVER:Arc vetch line is open 24 7 at 1 8 5 0 review zero.
VOICEOVER:Don't be a ogana.
VOICEOVER:Call the kvetch line today.
TREY GERRALD:Oh my god.
JOE KINOSIAN:Delightful.
JOE KINOSIAN:Y'all are such pros.
CHELSEY DONN:You're
JOE KINOSIAN:so fun.
CHELSEY DONN:kidding me?
JOE KINOSIAN:I seriously wanted that game to never end.
JOE KINOSIAN:I was like, can this go on forever?
TREY GERRALD:I still cannot believe that Joseph stumped you.
TREY GERRALD:Your name is Joe.
JOE KINOSIAN:I know, but like, I, I know an earlier version that starts with dun, dun, dun, da, ba, ba, da, ba,
TREY GERRALD:Okay, it's interesting you say that because I obviously wanted to do West Side Story, but
CHELSEY DONN:duh nuh
TREY GERRALD:is a, there are two different,
CHELSEY DONN:nuh nuh!
CHELSEY DONN:That
TREY GERRALD:The original Broadway musical is different than the film, and I think of,
JOE KINOSIAN:Yeah.
CHELSEY DONN:Oh.
TREY GERRALD:original overture is different.
TREY GERRALD:So it's like, I'm just, I'm not getting into the weeds.
TREY GERRALD:And then I guess I picked the fucking wrong Joseph one.
CHELSEY DONN:Ok, listen, Joe still massacred this game, ok?
CHELSEY DONN:Do we need to give him more of a lead?
TREY GERRALD:True.
